Episode 8 – Signal Lost, Found Stress

Chris Tonn  00:01

Welcome back to aerial perspectives. We have a familiar face on the show today from a previous episode. You might recognize the USS, United States, Mr. Ben Vogel from Pelican drones. He's been with the team now for about seven years, and he's a huge part of the everyday operation of Pelican drones, and basically, is the reason that rocket drones can even exist in the first place. So without further ado, we welcome Ben Vogel to the show. So welcome, welcome, good sir. What's going on, man? 

Ben Vogel  00:36

Man, it's good to see you. I know it's a little different setting. Having internet is I thought I was gonna hear applause there for a second, but yeah, well, it's awesome, man.

Chris Tonn  00:43

Love it. Love it. Well, as always, we like to kick things off with a little bit of a background story of one, you know, how you got into this, and a little bit of what you do on the daily. But I'll let you kick it off,

Ben Vogel  00:55

yeah, so, I mean, I got into it because of you. Of course, I was doing, worked for a glass company, and I remember one day you called my dad, and my dad was a fighter pilot, and so Chris called him up and and said, hey, check out the drone stuff. And so my dad called me, and I was over sleeping that morning, and he was like, come check out the drone with Chris and I. And so I was like, No, I'm not gonna go. I'm just gonna hang out at the house today. And then I hung up the phone, and I was like, You know what, maybe I should go check this out. So I went out you and I my dad flew the drone. And you know, I kind of had like, a little natural ability going on there. I've always been a big movie fan, but never worked with cameras so much, but there was a little easy transition between loving to watch movies, video games all coming together.

Chris Tonn  01:58

Yes, no, I I got, you're, you're under selling or telling the ability. It was kind of a eye opener for me as a business owner, when you came in that day. And it was first fun, you know, of like, let's get to know this drone and and just enjoy a little bit of, you know, hangout time. And I was like, I saw being like, Hey, can you maybe move into an orbit around us and and keep the camera facing us, and then this next thing, you know, like you're just doing orbits. And then I was like, All right, we'll try and maybe gimble up while rising and, and it was like, silk, silky smooth stuff. And I was like, this is, this is a skill set right here, and something that I didn't hesitate to bring you on board, and super glad we did, because now it's turned into so much more. Well, tell me. Tell me you know a little bit about the day to day at Pelican. And yeah,

Ben Vogel  02:51

well, just to kind of end on that last story, the thing that really surprised me was I've always been the kind of employee that can learn things really quick. I felt like, for me, it took me a while to really get the hang of the drone and camera operations. I mean, it took me, like, six or seven months to really get comfortable. So like, if people out there are struggling and they're a little frustrated, it does if you're not familiar with camera systems, which I wasn't. I mean, just just hang in there, flying every day, just flying to film your house or or follow a car down the road. Nothing creepy, but I mean, just flying day to day can really help you get to that next level. But anyway, so as far, as far as Pelican goes, we do a diverse range of services, everything from real estate to construction, shooting commercials, working for TV shows, a kind of a one stop shop production company. Now

Chris Tonn  04:01

that's, it's a full range of imagery services to say the least. And I know you do a lot of different work for a lot of different clients, you've been able to manage not just local businesses, but also some of our national brands like Netflix and Hulu and, you know, getting into also United States Navy, and it's just the list goes on and on, HGTV, yeah, beach hunters and all the bargain shows. It's never thought

Ben Vogel  04:31

I would be doing that, but it is. It is very cool. And I do like, I do like all the work we do, but I particularly like some of the more construction architecture jobs that we do, because really love the planning side of it, planning a job with a with a client, and then delivering that and and then being really stoked about it.

Chris Tonn  04:55

Well, let's take that a step further, actually, because I think a lot of people want to know. So you know that that deeper dive into that whole process of, you know, it's not just we show up at a certain time and fly the drone and get the pictures and deliver it's, it's, like you said, there's a planning chapter in there, and there's a quoting chapter. There's a, you know, a question list that kind of is designed to trigger any red flags, but, you know, walk us through. If I'm a new client coming in for imagery services, what are some of the things that you have to go through to make sure that it's a smooth operation, you know, and that everybody's happy at the end of the day. What's that look yeah,

Ben Vogel  05:36

so if it's somebody that has never purchased a service like this? You really do need to put them through their paces when it comes to questions, because they may not know what they want until they see it, and that may not, that might not be the most ideal situation, because you can deliver something, and once they see it, they're like, Oh, I wanted this instead. So you really want to pick their brain and try to get that information out, especially if they've ever worked with Drone Services. Or simply a question we normally ask is like, hey, what's an example video out there or photo, and that can really start a good dialog there. But, you know, just good communication covering all the basis between angles to shoot, any special things you want to highlight you you want to get all those questions up front?

Chris Tonn  06:41

Yep, couldn't agree more. And then that differs completely from a client that comes in with the movie set. They've got the whole screen by screen of what everybody's going to be shooting. Yeah, then there's the drone portions and and they know exactly when and where they want you and what kind of gear specifically they want. And, you know, the only other things are really getting into the dynamics of that more, you know, leveled approach to a production where you have everyone from, you know, camera grips and people that download footage and all the other pieces. But it's cool to see all the sides of the business, not just the flying side. And I know that that's what leads to next. Obviously, as you you kind of master the camera on a drone, you kind of carry over that same skill set to the ground. And I know one of the more recent things that came out when we, you know, started up, was the gimbal, you know, the the on the ground gimbal version of what you can walk around and do these two hours. But tell me a little bit you know about where this can sometimes lead for upsells. Because, again, you know, business owners in the imagery service want to be diverse. You take us there, and I know we end up doing this with other things like Matterport and so on. But you know, Where can this sometimes lead on the extra upsell options? Yeah,

Ben Vogel  07:58

it is good to have a lot of services in the tool bag, if you will,

Ben Vogel  08:06

because obviously the drone won't be able to cover all the bases you want, especially on interiors that you want to have that round capability with the gimbal. I feel like the camera, like the DSLR camera systems are, for me, was a lot harder to learn those type of skills over the drone, but once again, you just got to stick with it. There's a lot of great content on YouTube, but yeah, having a diverse range of services, so you have the opportunity to upsell and kind of make it a one stop shop for your client, you know, to keep them coming back

Chris Tonn  08:50

more. And an example of that too. On the financial side, we could go from a 250 to $300 drone photo session to adding on Matterport at 10 cents a square foot, or adding in video editing and other services that bring that top in line, you know, price point up to maybe 1015 102,000, in some cases. So no, it's important to to know those skill sets beyond the drone, because if you learn the camera on the drone, you know, with a little more practice, you can get those DSLRs down to a fine science as well. Well, tell me a little bit about some of your favorite jobs. You mentioned construction. Is there one that sticks out as a particular job? Then you just, you know, the

Ben Vogel  09:33

bigger commercial TV show jobs are, are pretty fun because the client knows exactly what they want, and it's it's good. You can really make a make a name for yourself out there. If you can really tell one of these directors, like, hey, whatever you want, I can do it. And that sounds easy, coming about. But apparently it's not, because I work with a bunch of different directors, and we'll go over the shot, I'll do the shot, and they'll be like, gosh, that was so easy. Like, why can't it always be like this? And it kind of surprises me that it, it isn't that easy, but, you know, just listen to your client, but yeah, to answer your question, I think the I don't, I'm not allowed to talk about it, but we did a Netflix show. It was extremely challenging, but by the time we got done with it, it was a big air of relief, but the client was super stoked. The only thing I can say is that it was a water based operation, and it was a very bad weather. Something that we're known for doing is a lot of water based operations, and those can be really challenging.

Chris Tonn  10:56

Now, absolutely I spicy on water.

Ben Vogel  11:02

We've had some good ones. Yeah, no,

Chris Tonn  11:05

no, absolutely. And I can't say that there's ever really a dull moment in this driver's seat of a business that I'm sure you know. You're used to changing around for weather. You're used to changing things for requests from the client side, and the list goes on, but at the end of the day, it's also maintaining the relationship. You know, it's a service business. At the end of the

Ben Vogel  11:27

it is, I mean, even today, excuse me. Or actually, the last week and a half, weather has been really spotty. It's raining, it's sunny, it's cloudy, it's it's whatever. And, like, I have a few jobs that are about an hour away, so I have to, I've been watching the weather all day. All starts like, oh, it's sunny. Let's go now. Oh no, it's raining. And then telling that to a client that's up in like, Kentucky or Nebraska, they don't know what's going on there, so just keeping that dialog going because they want it now, but we got, you just got to put them out of use, you know?

Chris Tonn  12:06

Yeah, no, it's super important to communicate, keep everybody abreast of what's going on. I can't tell you how many folks really skip out on that chapter, yeah, and wonder where the return phone call is on the next go around or so on and so forth. Well, you know, in addition to, of course, the fun jobs, there's got to be one or two that stick out as as maybe a not fun moment with any

Ben Vogel  12:32

few of those, some interesting ones. But the most recent one I can think of was we do this progress imagery job for a four malt bridge construction job. It's a pretty, pretty big job, and it's a little scary, to be honest, we filled out all the proper paperwork with the FAA because there's a military base nearby, and it's about say, would you say, like, two or three miles long? This job is, yeah, and there's a lot of air traffic. There's advertisers flying around, there's F 20 twos flying around. So it can be a little overwhelming, but there's like, this weird spot, so there's a Publix there, and you're doing this imagery of the bridge, and then right over that next side, there's this weird circle that is locked for some reason. From what I understand, there used to be some kind of military tech there. It's right over a hotel. So I don't really understand why. Anyways, there is, like a part of the road that cuts off right into that circle, and the client wanted to include that area. So what I was doing was staying away from it and getting more of an oblique angle. But this one time I was like, You know what? Let me just, you know, put an application for it, see if I can unlock it. And I did. So I'm on the other side of the bridge, about two miles away. Keep in line of sight, of course, but I flew into the circle, and for some reason, it wouldn't let me fly out. And I was at like, 35% battery. And so I was like, Okay, I got a few minutes to work this problem, and I'm working the problem, trying all these things, and nothing is working, and that drone is about to land within a few minutes. So I had to run two miles over this bridge in the summertime, excuse me, and just just to watch this thing come down, because I couldn't get out of the circle, and obviously I didn't want to land a $3,000 drone in the middle of public and some person just grabbed this thing and run. On, like, yeah, full construction gear, gear running across this bridge. Just a spot, and it was an interesting one. It keeps you young. I mean, you and I were on one when the Pensacola Bay Bridge got destroyed somewhat. It was sectioned on, yeah, and this, this will be a good story for some of the new pilots out here, just some of the things you need to think about. But we couldn't. The bridge is three miles long. It was broken up into like, three or four pieces because of the storm, and the contract wanted the whole bridge photograph, and we flew all the way down, and we kind of, it was windy that day, and we kind of overplayed our hand, and we were losing battery quick, and we kind of knew we weren't going to make it back, so like, just general on the fly, thinking is okay. Let's get as high as we can legally and just start making the trip back, because it was quicker coming back than going out, because of the win, but the fact that we went to max altitude while we're returning, when it did run out of batteries, it was coming down, but we're coming down 400 feet, so it gave us an extra landing zone, and we didn't make it. Yeah, yeah.

Chris Tonn  16:28

Eventually it turned out all good. You know, it's so funny, you mentioned these scenarios of knowing your limitations, but also understanding that it's a moving target. Sometimes, as winds pick up, conditions change, and it's an evolving situation. Sometimes I remember there was one going back to the Three Mile Bridge in Pensacola Bay. There was a helicopter out of like our left side, which we see helicopters all the time. We're home to the naval flight training center here. If you fly anything United States Navy, you come here first. But you know, this wasn't a normal helicopter. Was kind of getting closer and closer to the downtown area. And I remember all of a sudden we were both like, you know, keeping eyes on it, obviously, as we do with manned aviation as it gets closer to our area. But it started to like, dive bomb the cinema. That's right. That's right, that's right. It started to dive bomb the south Palafox pier and started to go parallel with the bridge and and we obviously grounded operations as they got over to us. But it ended up being the the cinema helicopter for the Blue Angels IMAX movie that was on Amazon Prime, and it was just a fun moment to, you know, see something a little different, but that's the thing. Always be prepared for the different, because it does happen. Yeah, we, we've

Ben Vogel  17:51

seen a lot. I mean, I remember seeing you on the front of a boat, and we thought a UFO was flying in front of us, but it was just a big airplane, and it was at night, yeah, but yeah, just like that, goes back to flying every day because you run into some interesting problems, and just knowing how to solve them quickly will definitely save you like, you know, making sure your home point is not under a tree if you're under a Tree, making sure you're not returning to home or something, and it's always faster to fly up than it is to fly down or left or right if you run into a problem. So there's, there's a lot of things that you're going to learn while you're flying.

Chris Tonn  18:35

Oh, absolutely, I think you, you've probably experienced just about all of it within the last seven years, and and not just, you know, in those cases, but also the the FAA you mentioned, you know, paperwork requests where we have to, you know, unlock an airspace and we or have to apply for a waiver that may be for a long duration of time. So we can do progress imagery on like a bridge or other things. But is that something that you know, is, you know, overwhelming? Is it something that you find to be a pretty easy task, walk us through a little bit of some of that? I

Ben Vogel  19:11

I mean, at first, I think it was a little overwhelming, but it it all makes sense. And I just want to say to all the pilot drone guys out there is to fill out these applications when you just I feel like eventually you're going to have to anyways, but you better get used to it now and get some of those contacts. At the FAA, we have a few contacts we talked to, and that is one of our specialties, is unlocking the unlockable, if you will. But yeah, just get used to it. It's pretty standard information, of address, how far away you're flying, how high, when, where, all that stuff. It gets a little more complicated when they say, No. Or they cut off a little piece that you don't want and you got that's where you just got to learn to communicate with them. But everyone out there definitely start filling out those applications. I know some of y'all are skipping that.

Chris Tonn  20:16

Yeah, yeah. That's right, that's right. Take, you know what's the worst they can say is, no, you know it's, it's, it's, you got to try do it right. Keep those clients happy, keep your insurance people happy. Everybody wins when you play by the rules. Now, speaking of unlocks, I think we've had some some fun ones in the past. As a matter of fact, two airport unlocks on one on mobile International and in Mobile Alabama and Pensacola international during led those ones. Oh, that was that. That was That was fun, though, for all parties. I think, you know, can it be done? You know, like, you know, should we even fill out this paperwork? Well, you know, thankfully, it did pay off to to fill out that paperwork and work with the officials. They did, in this case, pick up the phone and physically call for some questions.

Ben Vogel  21:10

But that finding that they're doing that more often, like ad for military around here, there is a like one person who takes care of that. So once you talk to her, you just, you know her, but if it's physical airport or a different private airport, you'll talk to different people. But I have noticed that they are way more communication friendly, like they'll call you up, be like, Hey, I can't do this. Can you do this instead? Yeah, and that's helpful if they're just, you know, if they're being friendly about it and reaching out and doing a dialog,

Chris Tonn  21:47

yeah, it's, it's, it goes back to that service side of the business, even on the relationship side of the vendors and the partners of the FAA, clear communication always helps your case to streamline everything forward, which in the airport. One was, was certainly a stressful one, because the airport was not closed down. It was active, and there was like Southwest Airlines landing behind us and and other things. But the client was happy we got the shots, and it was a great day. And was a little extra, I think there was somebody standing next to us at all times with a radio to to the tower. And that's right, yeah, all the extra layers. But you say, we've probably been involved with it. What's a What's some other fun projects? I know we had, you know, Netflix's Tiger King two. I think it

Ben Vogel  22:33

was, yeah, we shot some jet skis. Actually, you ran the drone that time, and I was your visual observer for that one. I did a what's it called a like romantic reality TV show for Hulu that was pretty fun, great, good group of guys there. We did an interesting one where we attached a VR camera to a parachute or parasail, yeah, that's right. And that was for some tourism like VR system that was going to be all over the country,

Chris Tonn  23:10

yeah, that's right. It was so such an interesting so we have some clients that that, I think, think like, Oh, if they can figure out a drone, they can figure out, like, all these other technology things. Well, one of them was a live cast from, you know, a school partner in the local area that's been with us for years now, and and the same logic, I think, applied to this shoot, where they were like, hey, we want to strap a 360 camera to a parasail and get a simulator built to put people in the airport that are waiting around up north that don't know about Alabama beaches, to put on these VR glasses and sit down in some beach chairs and just enjoy a little carousel ride in the airport, which I believe was wildly received well by by the client side. So all good stuff, but it is amazing the level of imagery services that people think of. Even recently, I think there was a foam suppression test for air claim me,

Ben Vogel  24:10

we don't like to say no very much, you know. And I think people come back to us for that reason, because if they have an interesting problem, they know that we're gonna at least try, and we're not gonna say yes unless we know we can do this. But the fire suppression one was interesting. That kind of that was your baby there, in my opinion, or your Enchantress with the transmitters. But I, I honestly didn't think we're gonna be able to pull that one off. But it was a huge hanger, like 120 feet by 300 speed, something crazy. And they wanted a camera on each corner, on each side wall, so they could see where the foam was spreading to for this s and all the. Cameras had to run until the phone crossed a certain point so the inspector could say it's all good. And if anyone's done like live transmissions or whatever, and you're in a different room, it's metal, it's huge, they know that this is a nightmare job right here. But I mean, we pulled it all

Chris Tonn  25:20

we did. We did that was that was really cool. Chance you was there. The whole team was there for that one. You know, it was something that don't see every day, but, but we were, we were sure stoked that everything technology wise worked at the end of the day. And, you know, I guess that's a whole nother chapter is, you know, in our line of work, technology is great when it works. Obviously, drones are no exclusion to having curveball problems, not just the conditions changing on the fly. I'm sure you've encountered weird error codes on the drone. It happens battery problems.

Ben Vogel  25:55

I mean, just after use, long use, you'll run into it like my controller. It stopped working just for no reason, so decide to send it in and get it fixed.

Chris Tonn  26:07

Now, there's some cases too, that I'm sure you can work through some problems, like you mentioned, unlock zones, and sometimes it's just a simple little, you know, battery issue. Maybe the batteries are overheating, or anything else that's workable, is it? Have you learned a few tricks over the years through this tech?

Ben Vogel  26:24

Yeah. I mean, there's nothing like a good turn off, turn on. Yeah, it's the simple stuff our recycle, whatever we call it, yeah. Just turn out, turning everything off and turn it back on. This fixes a lot of things, knowing how to calibrate your drone and all the sensors is a plus as well that will help some weird errors you'll have. But kind of what this newer stuff I have run into, a lot of the weird stuff would run into with the old mavics and the phantoms and whatnot.

Chris Tonn  26:59

Yeah, it was, it was a little more consistent problems, I'd say, exactly, and wandery elements totally. We got more precision, more tools in the toolbox with features and smart unlocks. But at the end of the day, I'm sure you're still encountering, you know, situations where a good manual pilot skill set still kicks in. Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't. I don't

Ben Vogel  27:23

use sensors ever. I don't know if you guys do the sensors or not, or do you call it for like, running into something, well, it throws you off your game when you're filming. Yeah, I don't ever use them. And it's like, I always, you know, look where I'm going, which is a big key. I feel like you got to look before you go. So I never use the sensors on there to, like, protect me from crashing into something. I just do it all by by eye. But you know, I, I didn't. I didn't come in until the Phantom series, so they weren't very reliable back then, so I just never got used to using it. Yeah, well, I'm lucky I didn't have to do the GoPro stuff. I'm pretty sure that you were on that or I was,

Chris Tonn  28:13

oh, it was, it was a different world. When the camera didn't talk to the controller, right, didn't see it until you got down to the ground, and if you forgot to press the record button before you took off, it was a bad day, but, but, yeah, the, you know, the manual elements, you know, you kind of look at the sensors, obviously, as a as a great training wheels platform. But when you start to do the pro level shots where you're flying through a tree to get to the entrance of a house and you want to stop short. Well, guess what? The sensor might stop you short on on purpose. So it's something to definitely keep in mind. But you know, in addition to, you know, some of these things that that throw us curveballs from both the technical side, is there, like a fun story that that you work through in the field, where either you lost line of not line of sight, but visual on the monitor and had to recover by the other tools in the toolbox. What's some of the like, Yeah,

Ben Vogel  29:15

I mean, I've definitely lost like, the monitor due to, like, over speeding or something we're in Florida, it happened. It happens all the time. You know, just keeping a visual eye on the drone is definitely the way to go. Or just, like, just being familiar with where you're and where you're at, your situational awareness is definitely key to staying on top of any issues that might pop up.

Chris Tonn  29:42

Yeah, it's funny how the drone orientation and your orientation have a lot to do with your emergency protocols of knowing exactly where it is. So I notice you, you do it all the time, like it's second

Ben Vogel  29:53

nature. It is it just this experience, this line, and you'll know where it.

Chris Tonn  30:00

Is, and that brings me my next point. You know, if you've flown drums long enough, you've had a you've had an oopsie, you've had a an AKA little bump or total, you know, crash situation. But I think the biggest thing is it puts you back in your respect side of these are the areas I don't want to get too comfortable with, because anything can happen. I remember one of my stories I had put on the Phantom days, a an amplifier on the the transmission system to ensure that we could have just absolute best quality signal during what in the beginning days weren't the best on range. And, you know, obviously you get into urban environments, lots of signal, but the battery on the amplifier had died, and I was under a tree, and this drone just goes straight to return to home, up into the tree. And obviously it didn't, didn't fall very far, but I definitely wore that propeller of shame afterwards, for a little bit mentally I did. And so, you know, we all have these stories, but, you know, it's, it's, it restores your respect for following the steady Eddy approach of keeping yourself out of

Ben Vogel  31:17

trouble on my desk for years. I mean, because, like, I mean, I crashed one, like, really early on when I first started, but there was like, that seven, eight month period where I got like, cocky, yeah, you know, and didn't, didn't take the extra precautions. And it's like, Hey, did I just fly through power lines right there? Oh my gosh, I need to look where I'm going. Yeah, you know, just don't get too cocky out there.

Chris Tonn  31:44

No, that's great advice. And, I mean, it's always important to stay grounded with all Oh yes, really is, well, tell me, you know, I always like to, you know, dive into like, you know, another side to this is, you know, really, what are the strengths that you know, you look for when you go into the world of bringing on new pilots and new filmmakers and content creators, you know, what is kind of the stuff that sticks out as something as an attractive hire and something that gives these, you know, audience members a little bit of a you know, understanding of where these strengths are?

Ben Vogel  32:18

Yeah, I would say because one for me would be just to have portfolio of some type. I mean, I get calls all the time with people asking if we're hiring, and it's like, not right this second, but send me what you got and I'll take a look. Nobody has ever has a portfolio or anything. I'm like, hey, just go shoot a random house or construction site, like you can shoot whatever you want. I don't care what it is, but I I gotta see something, right? Yeah, and just, no one sent me anything today. I mean, I've spoken to like 50 people in the last five months, and no one sent me a portfolio or anything. But it goes to the thing of flying every day. But like, shoot your house, shoot a random neighborhood, a construction site, a road, the beach, whatever it is, shoot something and store it and just building that skill and replace the photos you don't like that you think are better or worse or whatever, and just filling it up, agreed,

Chris Tonn  33:25

if you can show them, it puts everybody's mind at ease that there is a capability and a skill set there that's worth entertaining, especially if a business is growing and looking for stability. You know, businesses that are in the service side, that depend on the talent to execute the missions. Really want to make sure that that skill set is intact, which obviously I'm, I know, another thing we would probably run into, you know, like we started out a mountain fly, you know, show us, you know, show us your skill set. Let us run you through the paces gently, of course, but

Ben Vogel  34:01

in obviously being able to communicate with a client is pretty big deal as well. I mean, you don't have to be Rico Suave or whatever, but, you know, just being able to hear what a client is saying, indicate any questions you have and and then deliver that.

Chris Tonn  34:18

Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, let's talk about the future for just a little bit too. I know folks are always interested in what's around the corner, and I know we've been seeing some big changes in the world of AI video and in the world of you know, drones that basically can fly themselves to a degree. Do you feel like at some point, do we lose out on some of the content creation, or is this just the beginning of the chapter?

Ben Vogel  34:46

Think we are? Man, I really do. It's in the AI tools are building pretty quickly as we speak. And I mean, I just saw a news story that was the. Be fake. And I thought it was real, like all the people, and it looked real. I mean, they were a little it's got that kind of sheen to it, you know, right now, yeah. I mean, are people going to be able to even type in their house address and be like, make me a video?

Chris Tonn  35:17

Yeah, five years. It's an interesting chapter that I continue to watch very closely, but at the same time, you know, it feels like there's more of an attention grabber that you can get in the very beginning of your video and kind of transition over to whatever your message is. You know, there's obviously a fun factor to a talking, you know, rabbit or gorilla or other animals that have really taken storm to the beginning, but you're right looking ahead. These are pieces that almost feel get layered into the services offered within the content creator community, as you know, another tool or upsell in the box, because these are tools that folks just don't have the bandwidth to master themselves and spend the time becoming prompt Masters on on all this stuff. So it's, it's fun to see, but I also am with you. It's like, this could get a little bit interesting, because I too have fallen for a video, or at least a short snippet, where I was like, Was that real? I think it might have, I might have been, I don't know, but, but, yeah, any, any thoughts on, on drone, future elements we're seeing, you know, I

Ben Vogel  36:29

think the service, like delivery services, rescue services, law enforcement services, stuff like that. I think really, where it's kind of like, you know, because you're going to need some type of human hands on that, maybe the real estate and and some of those kind of services are going to kind of fade out because of AI. But, you know, when it comes to rescue or delivering needs some kind of help,

Chris Tonn  37:00

oh, couldn't agree more. It's, it's, it's fun to see that, you know, we sat in the photo and video usage category of drones for like, a decade, and that same decade we heard, you know, delivery drones are coming. You know, the this, you know, this technology is coming, that technology is coming, and finally, it's actually here in some forms, because now we're seeing, you know, agriculture crop spraying. We're seeing a drone mapping with LIDAR down to, you know, cent less than centimeter accuracy. We're seeing, you know, a lot of delivery applications finally coming into fruition down to six inch delivery, you know, you know, accuracy and so on, but it's, it's just neat to talk about it sometimes, and I'll often see if there's anything that you just really look forward to, or, you know, just

Ben Vogel  37:54

supposed to as you named. I'm definitely looking at getting more into that LiDAR, AG, stuff like that. That is something I am very

Chris Tonn  38:05

interested. Yeah, it seems to be a just beginning chapter of where this is headed as multiple industries continue to tack on. But nonetheless, this is always fun to catch up. We don't get to do it as often, always very busy we are, we are, thanks to the local community. And so, yeah, actually, we have some, some track, you know, customers you travel for too. I know there's been some, some talks of maybe even a little Hawaii

Ben Vogel  38:35

travel. So, holy Hawaii. Yeah, fingers crossed on that.

Chris Tonn  38:38

And that one's our, hotel client that that really enjoys our services. Because again, it's Ben gets to show up. Do the drone, do the ground, do the Matterport, do it all and and get back out of there. The client doesn't have to call three different parties, but, yeah, keep it consistent. That's it. Well, thank you, Ben for jumping on the show with us, any closing little thoughts or just little snippets to pass on to the audience.

Ben Vogel  39:07

Just keep it safe and keep it Pro, and I don't know, have fun

Chris Tonn  39:12

out absolutely well with that, we're out and maybe another great episode of Ariel podcast.